
-------- TML Message #1710 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1710
Subject: History question (Strephon's Assassination)
Date: Wed, 07 Nov 90 14:35:45 X
From: Iain Fogg <iain@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>


I was discussing the events leading up to the current state of the
Shattered Imperium with a new player yesterday. In particular, the
controversy surrounding Lucan and the murder of Varian. Official
documentation states that there was a security camera(s) in the Twin's
apartment, but that the recording medium (tape, holocyrstal, whatever)
was colocated with the camera (in other words, the monitoring equipment
was not directly linked to a central security station). The question
is, why not? On face value, the turmoil within the Imperium can be
traced back to this very important oversight; had there been adequate
security measures we would know who killed Varian, and the rebellion
may never had occurred. 

Thoughts, interpretations?

Iain.

-------- TML Message #1711 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1711
Subject: Re: Gnu Traveller
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 13:38:30 X
From: Iain Fogg <iain@batserver.cs.uq.oz.au>


In message (1694) metlay proposes GnuTraveller:

Great idea! Bloody marvellous in fact!

I'm more than happy to get involved in a rationalisation/rewrite of the
whole of the combat system (if other people think it needs improving).
I also think that a team should try to revamp the character generation
system. For a start, doing things like having extended character
generation for all careers and races.

Iain.


-------- TML Message #1712 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1712
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 22:06:07 -0900
From: George William Herbert <gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Gnu/Giga Traveller...


I emailed metlay shortly after seeing the initial posting, volounteering to 
work on rewriting COACC and a lot of the other vehicle/ship design stuff.
I have a rework of COACC allready conceptually done (more or less... 8-)
and have some very detailed ideas for expansions of the current system for both
more utility and reality.  Metlay let me on the group 8-) so now i guess
it's sort of official...

Anyway, one thing that I told him and that I want to suggest to the rest of
you too: It's not that hard to sell GDW a good article or supplement section
these days.  If you REALLY want to make a difference, work with the online
group, but try to get GDW to make the rewrites/changes official...and pay
you for the privelege 8-)

- - -george william herbert
gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu  MegaTraveller Vehicle Design FTP Archive Maintainer

-------- TML Message #1713 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1713
From: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: sorry... :(
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 7:45:18 MET

  Shame on me for accidentaly remailing the *entire* TML message. I didn't 
even notice that I had done it until I saw it in the digest.
  I will try my very best from letting this happen again, and I hope that it
didn't cause anyones mailbox to overflow.

- - -bertil-
- - -- 
Capitol/Core (????-???????-?)                                 312-1120
A navy spokessophont today revealed that the publication 'Fighting Ships of
the Shattered Imperium' has been determined to originate on Terra/Solomani Rim.
"It's bound to be an insidious Solomani plot to disrupt the Imperial Navy's
 acquisition programs. The navy is amazed that som many loyal citizens fell for
 it. After all, there is a statement on the back of the book that clearly 
 states that it was printed in an provice on Terra!"

-------- TML Message #1714 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1714
Date:     Wed, 7 Nov 90 23:26:58 PST
From: Orcinus orca <jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu>
Subject:  vehicle designs on the TML

Someone suggesting sending summaries of vehicle designs to the TML
and putting the complete file at an FTP site.  

I agree.  The vehicle designs are great and all, but having to wade
through nearly every one at 1200 baud on a modem is not much fun :-(

The only problem I can think of is that some people might not be
able to use FTP.
- - --
John H. Kim
jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu
uunet!jarthur!jokim

-------- TML Message #1715 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1715
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.COM>
Subject: Help!! Trade & Commerce nightmare!
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 90 23:40:23 PST

Well, I've put it off for as long as possible, but I've finally had to
bite the bullet and dive into the Trade & Commerce section of the MT Ref's
Manual.  It's even worse than I thought!!  Help me out here folks, 'cause
I've got a TON of questions.  (Well, a couple Kilos, at least :-)).

Starting with Part 5 "Freight and Cargo" (pg. 50), does the AVAILABLE
LOTS table apply to Freight, or Cargo, or do you use it once for each?
Also, how do you determine lot size for freight?  The note that refers
to "Lot Size" only mentions cargo.

Next comes the REAL mess: cargo cost.  As nearly as I can tell, the rules
which govern the determination of cargo cost (to the speculator) on pg. 53
MAKE NO ALLOWANCE FOR CARGO TYPE.  This means that a 100 Kl. lot of ferrous
metal ore costs the same as a 100 Kl. lot of electronic parts, which costs
the same as a 100 Kl. vehicle, which costs the same as 100 Kl. of TL-15
mud!  It's all based on volume (or weight), and modified by trade code,
tech level, and source world starport type.  What a crock of SH*T!  When
I saw the spec. cargo entries on pg. 13 of "Knightfall", my initial
reaction was, "Yah!  That's how it's suppose to look!"  Unfortunately,
you can't get there from here.

What's a ref to do?  (BTW, I need answers BEFORE the middle of next week.
Otherwise, James and Richard's new characters in my campaign may be standing
in the unemployment line.  ...and I think one of them bites!! :-))

        Mark F. Cook

USMail: User Interface Technical Support
        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330

INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc

-------- TML Message #1716 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1716
From: Dave Johnson <D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: GNU Traveller
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:49:28 WET

        Yes Great Idea,
                       Work on it. I am sure that the MT world would love it.
For me the rules have to be winged in most cases. The TML has helped and I am
sure that the GNU traveller would help as well.

By the Way, Thank you for all the vehicle designs, Now I won't have to suffer
the process of designing vehicles that my players are begging for.

Dave



- - --

+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| David M. Johnson                   | Janet : D.M.Johnson@uk.ac.newcastle    |
| c/o Electrical and Electronic Eng. | ARPA  : D.M.Johnson@newcastle.ac.uk    |
|     Merz Court                     | UUCP  : ...ukc!newcastle!D.M.Johnson   |
|     Newcastle University           |                                        |
|     Newcastle upon Tyne            |                                        |
|     NE1 7RU                        |                                        |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| 'There are only three just wars in American history: The American Civil War,|
| World War II and the Star Wars Trilogy,                                     |
|       Peace Dudes'                                                          |
+------------------------------------+----------------------------------------+


-------- TML Message #1717 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1717
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 10:15 EDT
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: The New Traveller rules


Gang, let's please stop calling it "Gnu" Traveller. I really do need
better suggestions as to a name, and only one person has suggested one
as of now: "Rebel Traveller" (which ain't bad, BTW). My Gnu-using friends
are jumping up and down on my case already, so let's change it quick. 

Why is a name so important? Because I've been fielding enthusiastic letters
all day, and it looks like this thing is going to be a going concern very 
soon. But I am NOT set up to archive and redistribute material for this
venture, which will eventually be moving large files and possibly graphics
and charts as well; I need a volunteer to help with the grunt work. Must
be willing AND ABLE to collate, redistribute, store and format this stuff
we collect and edit into distributable form, for free. If no one volunteers,
then the New Traveller rules will not happen, because I just can't do them
myself. Keep those notices coming if you want to get involved, folks: I'm
setting up a list of who wants to do what.

metlay

PS. My own vote: TDR (pronounced "Teedeeyar" in one word). Traveller Done Right.
PPS. Robert Dean, by saying "I vote for Gnu Traveller," you have cast the only
vote that counts in electing you to membership in the vehicular design team.
Congratulations. |-> And no, we never did find out where the Annic Nova came
from. Sorry.

-------- TML Message #1718 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1718
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 10:42:07 EST
From: Dan Corrin <dan@engrg.uwo.ca>
Subject: Traveller++

I am in favour of this sort of project. I presume that it will include
software as it will be computer oriented.

At GenCon this summer I was talking to Joe Fugate about various things. One
that I wanted to do, was to produce new pages for the ones that had
errata on them. Thus one could seperate the pages from the MT books
(assuming this isn't already done), and just substitute the new pages
for the old ones.

He mentoined that the manuscript that was sent to GDW was editied by them
before production (as would be expected) but that several changes
and/or errors were introduced. I am trying to get the original
manuscript in order to create these new pages. 

At our site we have a nifty desktop publishing system in which I have 
duplicated the appearance of the MT pages. I'll put an example page
in the archives this weekend so those of you with net access and a
postscript printer can see for yourselves.

					-Dan

Dan Corrin, System Manager, Mechanical Engineering, UWO, London, Ontario
TML FTP site coordinator:  dan@engrg.uwo.ca   ...!watmath!julian!engrg!dan

-------- TML Message #1719 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1719
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 11:41 EST
From: Ministry of Silly Minds - Open for Business <GDS3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu>
Subject: Re: weapons skill redefinitions


    I have been reading the comments on redoing the weapons skills, and I
    have a point to bring up.  Does getting a skill with a weapon also give
    you the capability to perform maintainence on it?  If so, then you have
    to keep the skills seperated.  If not, then there should be a
    Gunsmith Cascade skill for the various types of weapons(archaic,
    revolvers, semi-autos, SMG's, MG's, Gauss, Laser, Plasma, Fusion,
    Neural, etc).  This is something that must be considered if GNU
    Traveller gets the go ahead.

    Also, I'm in favor of GNU Traveller, and I'm willing to help.

    						Jedi Master

- - ---
\  _		Gary Schreiber			| Kelson Alaric
 \ |		241 Oakdale Dr.			| Barrony of Thescorre
  \|		Rochester, NY 1461		| Aethelmearc, EK
EMAIL: gds3939@ritvax.bitnet OR gds3939@vax{a,b,c,d,e}.isc.rit.edu
	OR gds3939@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
OTHER: gds3993@ultb.isc.rit.edu

-------- TML Message #1720 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1720
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 10:54:16 -0700
From: FELLOWS STEVEN B -5 CR <sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu>
Subject: Shipping Questions

I think the idea about GnuTraveller to be really keen.  I do however agree
(with whoever it was) that the character generation should be left alone.
I agree that more skills are needed and finer granularity of some skills.

A big thing that should be changed is the Trade and Commerce as well as
information of cargo shipping.  The players in my campaign acquired a ship
(bought a used ship at auction, but with stolen money) and decided to go into
the cargo carrying business, so that they could afford the incidentals:
bullets and hospital care.

The cargo carrying information in MegaT and 2300AD was really poor and there
was little information about running a ship.  I also did not see anything
on insurance, costs of operation, and furthermorem, what do you charge for
cargo.

So, I did some research and found a pretty good source on today's shipping:
all forms of shipping:land, air and sea.

Some of the information I found out:

Insurance rates are 6% of the purchase cost of the ship per year, and they
do not go down.  Insurance does not cover acts of war or piracy.  Insurance
can be bought for war and piracy but in some cases it could be 100% or even
more than the value of the purchase price of the ship.

Rate charges:  Charges are listed by the metric tonne.  BUT, and this is a
big but: It is "understood" that this really means either metric tonne or
cubic meter, whichever is greater.
   Charges are very often set by committee, a group of shippers decides
that the rate between New York City and London is 7 dollars per tonne.
This is based on an average number of days of travel, and is the same
regardless of the travel.

There is no set time for delivery, but since the carrier is not paid per
day it is in his best interests to get it there as fast as possible.

It is possible to rent a whole ship, and in that case the charges and
stipulations can be anything.  However, most often this is not the case
because cargos people want to send are generally not that big.


****
The person I asked is my father, who is now retired from the shipping
industry.

He is very happy to answer questions regarding shipping and has asked that
I send him my questions written down instead of asking him by voice when he is
paying for the phone bill.  I think he is also intrigued by the possiblities
of space shipping.

So, why don't y'all send in your questions and I will compile them into a
letter and send them to him.  He is also familiar with dealing with customs
(and various types of customs officials around the world).

Subjects that could be asked (and I am trying to think of many myself)
are:
would a shipper ever buy a cargo to sell elsewhere, how risky is that?
mercantile exchanges (including the Baltic Exchange in London)...
who runs the loading and offloading of a ship (I think he mentioned that 
 carrier usually pays for it himself unless special arrangements have 
 been made)?
Any Trade or Commerce questions...
etc.

Of course , I realize that this is now and in the future anything could be
different, but it is a good basis to start with , and is a realistic system
to use.  What information I gleam from him , I use in my campaign.  Also, I
will try to remember to have him give it for both ships and airlines, as
well as trucks (if he has the time).

You can ask any question you want, including anything about illegal
activities (which might not get an answer, but who knows!  :)   ).
Unfortunately, he does not have a computer or net access so this will have
to be through the US Post office.

Go ahead and post them here, or you could send them directly to me, but
then probably I will get a few duplicates.  Also, some questions might
generate more questions from others.  I will probably mail the letter the
weekend after next, if not sooner.

Steven B. Fellows
sfellows@slate.mines.colorado.edu

-------- TML Message #1721 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1721
Subject: PBEM admin stuff (sorry folks - it never ends :-)
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 7:40:43 PST
From: Richard Johnson <richard@agora.UUCP>

Sorry about the turn screw-up.  I mailed it Monday morning --
to James, not the list :-(  Called him last night, you should
have it by now :-)

New Characters (or re-instituted)

Alliara  amoss@batata.huji.ac.il   (Marc Volovic)  
Charyn   jamesp@metolius.wr.tek.com  (James T. Perkins)

and and address change...
Ralf     scratch@unix.cis.pitt.edu   (Steve Owens)



-------- TML Message #1722 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1722
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 09:25:18 -0800
From: "Ted Kim (Random Dude" <tek@lanai.cs.ucla.edu>
Subject: Re: GigaTraveller

I say go for it!
I am particularily interested in these areas mentioned so far:
	one unified vehicle design system for everything
	new trade and commerce system
	physics problems

> and whether or not you'd be interested in a new Universe to run them in.

This is an interesting possibility. But I think it should be secondary
to the main goal of fixing up the rules. Many GMs have their own
homebrewed campaign backgrounds anyway (though neat ideas are always
welcome). 

Hopefully, though, the rules will not be changed so much that the
"official" universe could not have happened. I think many will still
want the option of being able to use the NEW and IMPROVED rules with
"official" materials.

On another topic, what ever happened to the SYSGEN mailing list?
Or more importantly the SYSGEN programs?

- - -ted

Ted Kim                           Internet: tek@penzance.cs.ucla.edu
UCLA Computer Science Department  UUCP:     ...!{uunet|ucbvax}!cs.ucla.edu!tek
3804C Boelter Hall                Phone:    (213)206-8696
Los Angeles, CA 90024             FAX:      (213)825-2273

[TML Admin here (see, I do read these things!).  The two topical mail
sub-lists, Trade & Commerce and Star System Database, died out a year or
two ago.  It seems to be hard for large groups of people to stay
committed over months on a task or topic.  Should anyone wish to
volunteer as a "Topic Coordinator" and mini-mail-list admin, I'd be
happy to give it my official blessing.  It looks like metlay may be
requesting this once he can find some deeply committed people.  I
suppose one way to judge commitment is to examine whether a person has
had a consistent history of posting meaty material to the TML -- James]

-------- TML Message #1723 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1723
Date:    Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:21 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Gnu Traveller

I'll vote for it.  I may even use it!  :)  In fact, I'll go so far as to say
I'll help (as much as I can)!
>
>How about TRAVELLER++.  :-)
>                (If you're not a C programmer and don't get it, never mind.)
>
How about Concurrent Traveller.   ;+)

>        Mark F. Cook
>
>USMail: User Interface Technical Support
>        Hewlett-Packard - Interface Technology Operation
>        1000 NE Circle Blvd.  Corvallis, OR 97330
>
>INTERNET: markc@hpcvss.cv.hp.com
>UUCP:     {cmcl2, harpo, hplabs, rice, tektronix}!hp-pcd!markc
>
- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1724 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1724
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:22:14 -0500
From: "T. L. Hayes" <al646@cleveland.freenet.edu>
Subject: Gnu Traveller



     I think the concept of Gnu Traveller is terrific.  I would be more 
than willing to contribute to the project in any way that I can.  I 
have a few concerns though.  Every role playing game is unique, not
because of the system of rules used but because of the background detail.
The flavor and soul of Traveller are its background and history as well
as its game system.  While rewriting the game system is a great idea it
can also destroy much of what it is about Traveller that attracted all
of us to it and to this list.  I think what we are proposing is a huge
project that I find very exciting.  There are numerous and obvious places
where Traveller needs to have its system patched or replaced but the
patches or replacements need to "fit" into traveller without massive 
restructuring of the other pieces.  I guess what I'm saying is "if it
ain't broke, don't fix it".

     With that cautionary note firmly in place here is a partial list
(off the top of my head) of places that need to be looked at for possible
patching or replacement:

     1) Man-to-man combat (with and without weapons)
	I like combat systems that have a feel of realism but realism
	like in the movies.  Combat should be fast and furious. Players
	should be on the edge of their chairs not boredly looking up
	charts and tables.  The current system is interesting (using
	interrupts) but I'm not sure I like it.

     2) Trade and Commerce
	I think this one is obvious.  Star Trek has an interesting
	system for dealing with this aspect of the game including 
	playing the stock market.

     3) Internal Consistency
	From the talk on the list, the vehicle design system suffers
	from this problem.  Does anything else?

     4) Physical Consistency
	While SF-RPG games by their very nature must violate "known"
	laws of physics, it is best if they are done as cleanly as
	possible.  The recent Black Globe discussions are an example
	of the problems of not thinking through the physical ramifications
	of a "high tech toy".

     And I am sure there are others.  Two areas that I like they way
they are are:
    
     1) Psionics
	Not very powerful or very abundant which can quickly turn a
	good SF game into a fantasy game with psionic-magic!  I
	know because I made this mistake once.  It was fun for awhile
	but...

     2) Character Generation
	The addition of some truely alien races would be nice (I have
	a couple that I could contribute if anyone is interested) but
	the basic system is fairly good.  This is a case of "it ain't
	broke".  Its not the best system I've seen but there's really
	nothing "wrong" with it.

     Anyway, these are just my humble thoughts on things.  As I said 
earlier, I am very excited about Gnu Traveller and would be happy to
aid in any way possible.

Tony L. Hayes

PS Maybe it could be called ... Voyager ... or maybe not.



- - --
T.L.Hayes                  |
MIT/Lincoln Laboratory     |
Lexington, MA              |

-------- TML Message #1725 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1725
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:50:56 EST
From: Jonathan Clark <jhc@ulysses.att.COM>
Subject: Re: weapons skill redefinitions

Gary Shreiber asks:

    Does getting a skill with a weapon also give
    you the capability to perform maintainence on it?

In my system the answer is yes, a weapons skill includes the
training to perform maintenance on that weapon, which is in
accordance with current military training. It's the PCs
problem if they forget to actually do the said maintenance...

Jonathan

-------- TML Message #1726 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1726
Date:     Thu, 8 Nov 90 15:41:36 EST
From: "Robert S. Dean" <rsdean@crdec8.apgea.army.mil>
Subject:  Vehicle Designs, Part 24

Hre are a few more in the on going series.  I'm not really sure that the
attack transport would be militarily viable, but...

- - -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Marcus Antonius class Attack Transport TL13
  
       The first Marcus Antonius  was constructed for a specialized mercenary 
  company.  Able to simultaneously drop a full platoon of jump troops, and 
  retrieve them when their operation was completed, the vessel was used pri-
  marily for commando type raids.  The cargo capacity of 111 displacement tons
  allows over 200 spare drop capsules to be carried, so the ship can engage in 
  multiple drops while operating independently if necessary.
  
    CraftID: Marcus Antonius class Attack Transport, TL13, MCr1510
       Hull: 1800/4500, Disp=2000t, Config=1SL, Armor=55F, Loaded=43659t,
             Unloaded=36902t
      Power: 120/240, Fusion=16200MW, Duration=30/90 
       Loco: 144/288, Maneuver=3, 72/144, Jump=4, Cruise=750kph, Max=1000kph, 
             Agility=1
       Comm: Radio=System*2, Laser=System*2, Maser=System*2
    Sensors: EMS Active(FarOrbit)*2, EMS Jammer (FarOrbit)*2,
             EMS Passive(Interstellar)*2, Neutrino Sensor (100kw)*2,
             High Pen Densitometer (100m)*2, ActObjScan=Rout,
             ActObjPin=Rout, PassObjScan=Diff, PassObjPin=Diff,
             PassEnScan=Rout, PassEnPin=Diff
        Off: Hardpoints=20
  
                    Missile=x05     BeamLaser=xx4
             Batteries        3                 4 
             Bearing          3                 4
  
        Def: DefDM+8
  
                 SandCaster=x04
             Batteries        4
             Bearing          4
  
    Control: Computer Mod7fib*3, 1*LargeHoloDisplay, 4*HeadsUpHoloDisplay, 
             60*HoloLink
      Accom: Crew=30 (4 bridge, 4 engineer, 8 gunners, 100 troops, 6 flight,
             4 command, 1 medical), Staterooms=75, Env=basic env, basic ls, 
             extended ls, grav plates, inertial comp
      Other: Fuel=11880kl (1 jump-3+30 days), Cargo=1500kl, Missile 
             Magazine=180kl (50b-r), Fuel Scoops, Fuel Purifier (24hr),
             SubCraft=4*20t Raptor Landers, ObjSize=Large, EmLevel=Moderate

  Pegasus Armaments LTX TL9
  
       The Pegasus Armaments LTX (Light Tank Experimental) was designed in 
  response to a solicitation by the Parlek Corporation Security Department for 
  a low maintenance, low manpower light armored vehicle primarily for starport 
  security duties.  The Parlek Corporation's idea of what that might entail 
  included a specification that the main weapon was to be capable of penetrat-
  ing a typical unarmored starship hull.  Long range weaponry was not a major 
  requirement, and it was determined that a 16cm gun/mortar system would be 
  suitable.  The control and sensor systems are adequate to eliminate the need 
  for more than one operator. Four prototypes are still being evaluated.
  
    CraftID: LTX, TL9, Cr326,521
       Hull: 2/5, Disp=2, Config=4USL+turret, Armor=25D, Unloaded=21.5t,
             Loaded=32.3t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=3.2MW, Dur=55hrs
       Loco: 1/2, Tracks, P/W=99, Road=183kph, Offroad=73kph
       Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km), LaserComm=VDistant(50km)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights, Adv Act IR, Adv Image Enhancement, Laser Sensor,
             AllWeatherRadar=VDist(50km), Ladar=Dist(5km), ActObjScan=Diff,
             ActObjPin=Diff
        Off: Hardpoints=1, Weapon stabilized, 100kph
  
                           Pen/         Max    Auto   Dngr
                Ammo  Rds  Attn   Dmg   Range  Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
   16cm Mortar  HEAP  80    53    16  Dist(9km) -      -      H     6
                 HE    -    24    20  Dist(9km) -     40      H     6
   7mm Gatling   -  10000  3/3    3   Dist(1.2) 7      -      H   1280
  
        Def: -
    Control: Comp0*1, CompLink*6
      Accom: Crew=1 (Operator), Seats=Roomy*1, Env=basic env, basic ls
      Other: Fuel=7.7kl, Cargo=0, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Moderate

  Elefant Model 2 ATV TL8
  
       The Elefant family of ATVs is produced by Abor Industries of Aki (a 
  wholly owned subsidiary of the planetary government), and widely exported to 
  the low tech level worlds in the Glisten and District 268 subsectors.  The 
  Model 2 version is for general offroad transport of people and cargo.
  
    CraftID: Elefant Model 2 ATV, TL8, Cr175,230
       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=8B, Unloaded=72.6t,
             Loaded=128.8t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=13.2MW, Dur=100hrs
       Loco: 2/4, Tracks, P/W=102, Road=176kph, Offroad=106kph
       Comm: Radio=Regional(500)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights
        Off: Hardpoints=1 (no weapon installed)
        Def: -
    Control: Elec*30
      Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=9, Seats=Adequate*10, Env=basic env
      Other: Fuel=46.2kl, Cargo=10kl, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

  Elefant Model 1 ATV TL8
  
       The Elefant family of ATVs is produced by Abor Industries of Aki (a 
  wholly owned subsidiary of the planetary government), and widely exported to 
  the low tech level worlds in the Glisten and District 268 subsectors.  The 
  Model 1 version is suitable for extended wilderness travel.
  
    CraftID: Elefant Model 1 ATV, TL8, Cr211,640
       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=8B, Unloaded=73.8t,
             Loaded=126.3t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=13.2MW, Dur=100hrs
       Loco: 2/4, Tracks, P/W=104, Road=178kph, Offroad=106kph
       Comm: Radio=Regional(500)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights
        Off: Hardpoints=1 (no weapon installed)
        Def: -
    Control: Elec*33
      Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=1+2, Seats=Adequate*2, Bunks*2, 
             Env=basic env, ext ls
      Other: Fuel=46.2kl, Cargo=6.3kl, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

  Elefant Model 1+ ATV TL8
  
       The Elefant family of ATVs is produced by Abor Industries of Aki (a 
  wholly owned subsidiary of the planetary government), and widely exported to 
  the low tech level worlds in the Glisten and District 268 subsectors.  The 
  Model 1+ version is suitable for extended wilderness travel in support of 
  exploration or prospecting efforts.
  
    CraftID: Elefant Model 1+ ATV, TL8, Cr300,440
       Hull: 9/23, Disp=10, Config=4USL, Armor=8B, Unloaded=73.9t,
             Loaded=128.7t
      Power: 1/2, MHD=13.2MW, Dur=100hrs
       Loco: 2/4, Tracks, P/W=102, Road=176kph, Offroad=106kph
       Comm: Radio=Continental(5000km)
    Sensors: 2*Headlights, Act IR, Pass IR, Light Amplification, Magnetic
             Sensor, Radiation Sensor, Radar=VDist(50km)
        Off: Hardpoints=1
  
                        Pen/          Max      Auto   Dngr
             Ammo  Rds  Attn    Dmg   Range    Tgts   Spc    Sig   ROF
   HMG        -   1000   6/3     3  VLong(1.5)  3      -      H     80
  
        Def: -
    Control: Comp0*1, ElecLink*8
      Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Passengers=1+2, Seats=Adequate*2, Bunks*2, 
             Env=basic env, ext ls
      Other: Fuel=46.2kl, Cargo=8.5kl, ObjSize=Average, EmLevel=Moderate

-------- TML Message #1727 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1727
Date:    Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:31 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: RE:  Mail traffic

>TML nightly     Wed Nov  7 20:32:55 PST 1990    Volume 11 : Issue 8
>
>
>I hate to sound like an old stick in the mud, but I have a suggestion to make
Make that 2 sticks in the mud...:)

>or the mail archives. Anybody agree with me? If not I'll shutup!
>
I agree.  Please, don't take this the wrong way, I do think the designs are
worthwhile, but they do get kind of long to wade through looking for the other
articles.  I *DO* want them available but say just a posting to the list giving
the names and classes of ships and then the full data on the vehicle designs
ftp site.

>Paul.
>
Paul 2.

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1728 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1728
Date:    Thu, 8 Nov 90 14:08 EST
From: PHB100@psuvm.psu.edu
Subject: Black Globes and such

>
>     I always assumed that the Black Globe was modeled on the Langston
>Field from Jerry Pournelle's Co-Dominium series.  It was black,

I prefer this version of the Globe too.  It doesn't give the user an "ultimate"
defense as traveller's version does.  If and when I ever use them, I will allow
overloading them as in the CoDominium.  If you recall, in the MOTE universe you
have to concentrate lots of offense in one small area to overload it, then the
field-stored energy is radiated inward to the generator itself.

Since the field is 3-dimensional, it takes energy to create it and MORE energy
to create the 'hole' in the middle for the ship to occupy (otherwise the field
would absorb the energy in the ship, and even in the crew's bodies).  Speaking
of which, I believe I recall a scene in MOTE where one of the crew works his
way through the field in order to look around.  It seems that when he came back
he was cold because the field had started to absorb the molecular energy of his
body.  Does anyone else remember this?  And does traveller's version allow
going through a Black Globe this way (albeit slowly)?


>running uphill in winter).  Also, the ship inside the field can poke
>antennae and such through the field so that they can have a look around
>
I think this is wrong.  sticking an antenna through won't do any good.
The field will just absorb the energy of the electrons coming through it.  I
believe they had to create a 'hole' in the Field and point their sensors
through it (which, of course, took yet *more* power :) in order to look around.

>     Okay, where has this taken us?  To the issue of material objects
>...
>course, if you use a sufficient amount of handwaving, you can violate
>physics all you want.  ;-)
> >
Since this is all hand-waving physics anyway, lets wave some more...;-)

- - - ------Subject Change:  robot fighters------
>
>  How about manning them with robots? The might not be cheap, but they obey
>orders without questioning, and without regards to the odds.

A friend of mine came up w/ this idea (hi Tim  ;-), Since robots don't need
life support, it cuts down on size, weight and complexity of the fighters also.

- - - ------Subject Change: cosmic rays ---------

>>
>>       Supposedly, NASA considers the secondary radiation generated by
>> cosmic rays hitting an armored hull to be more deadly than the cosmic
>> radiation itself.  An interview I saw recommended having 2 habitats

It is.  I recall reading that primary cosmic rays, if they hit a person, would
go right through without affecting him at all.  It is the secondary, tertiary
and lower rays cascaded by the atmosphere that do damage to humans.  However,
not being a Physicist, I admit that I may be recalling this incorrectly.

>
>(So no more Annic Nova drives...Metlay, are you listening?  Was there ever
>an explanation of where the Annic Nova came from?  (Not that I remember))
>
This sounds interesting....What is the Annic Nova (a ship I assume ;) and what
kind of drives did it have?

- - -------

Disclaimer:  This is me.  Do I sound like anyone else?

Paul Baughman          PHB100@psuvm.bitnet

-------- TML Message #1729 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1729
From: plb@violin.att.COM
Subject: Thoughts on Interstellar Economics & Trade
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 13:37:40 EST

Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 2C119
Phone: (201) 615-4419
Return-receipt:
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5]

Hi Folks,

It's been a while since I posted anything on this list, so I
thought I'd share some random ramblings with the list and see what
I can get stirred up.


I have been long facinated with the mechanics of interstellar
economics and trade within the Traveller/MegaTraveller/Traveller++
framework.  Indeed, many of my characters that I have played out in
other campaigns have been Merchants trying to make a fortune buying
and selling stuff, carting freight, and other such.  Some of my
inspiration comes from history and study of the China Clippers and
the tea trade as well as the novel Tai Pan. 

A successfull Merchant could easily become a rather influential
person in both an economic sense and politically, legally and
illegallly.  But, I'm getting off on a rabbit trail here...


I think we all agree that there are massive holes in the trade and
commerce rules of MegaTraveller, and the OT rules in book 2 are
somewhat lacking.  Other than that, I also feel that too much is
made of the influence of tech level on a planet's ability to trade
with other planets equitably.  There are a number of other factors
to be considered.

One factor that will always be a major influence in an economy's
ability to provide product for trade to other economies is the
uniqueness of that product.   For instance, in the China Clipper
trade, tea was a commodity that was only to be found in the
Orient.  Indeed, that was the major commodity in it's trade with
the rest of the world.   Bamboo and silks were second to that
commodity.

Another factor would be a percieved or real value.  For instance,
gems and jewels.   Sri Lankha continues to be a place to get good
quality gems in the modern world. 

The so called "Bannana Republics" provide produce to the US economy
on a grand scale.  We provide them with machinery and the like.

Keeping in mind the concept of trade here, how does one go about
paying for an economy's products?   The planet Balderdash-VII may
well have enough gold on the planet that it is considered fill rock
for paving projects. As a result that would be a poor choice of
basis of trade.  On the other hand the good people of
Balderdash-VII may have never seen tea before and consider it the
nectar of the gods and pay dearly for it.  

As a result of those differences in values between economies, I
would submit that in an interstellar trade community more barter is
done rather than exchange of hard currency.  Then again, I could be
all wet here.

Where is this text all leading?  I dunno!  I'm just rambling!  :-) 

Keep in mind I am not a student of economics and such subjects
usually baffle/bore me.  However, for Traveller game reasons I am
trying to get a handle on it. 

I have been for some time trying to come up with a set of tables
that would be used in the generation of worlds for a Traveller
campaign that would allow a ref to figure out what a world's major
economic products are and what it looks for in return from other
worlds.  With such a system, setting up trade routes and fitting a
set of reasonable explainations for a planet's settlement would be
fairly easy.

Comments?



- - -- 
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|Peter L. Berghold            |  AT&T, HRSAG, +1 (201) 615-4419        |
|INTERNET: plb@violin.att.com |  UUCP: {uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb  |
|FAX: 1(201) 706-2004         |                                        |
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------- TML Message #1730 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1730
From: wrgate.wr.tek.com!oresoft.com!richard@reed.UUCP (Richard Johnson)
Subject: Digests
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 90 8:49:05 PST

If anyone has a digest burster that works on the TML, please
send me a copy (if you can), or let me know what such a thing
is called that I may locate one of my own.  After writing those
interminably long messages, I want to skip over them when I read the
list.  :-)

Richard Johnson
	richard@agora.hf.intel.com

[I wrote a new digest burster which has been submitted to the TML - it
will be in a later message.  I sent a copy of the posting off to Richard
so he ought to be okay now -- James]

-------- TML Message #1731 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1731
Date: Thu,  8 Nov 90 21:22:21 -0500 (EST)
From: William Dow Rieder <wr0k+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: (1705) Fixing Maneuver Drive Physics...

George William Herbert writes:

>I've been working on a fix for justifying the volume-based maneuver drives...
>It goes something like this:
>	Maneuver drives (not grav thrusters) don't actually produce thrust
>or force.  What they do is distort the local gravity field...not just play 
>with it like lower tech grav, but actually forms a gravitational gradient
>(volume of warped grav. volume is porportional to the maneuver drive
>volume...) around/within the ship.  The 'thruster plates' garbage can be
>explained away thru pseudogobbldeygook 8-) .  The Inertial Compensators
>take this field (which should be uneven, stronger closer to the drives...)
>and even it out so that everything in the ship doesn't fall towards the
>front 8-) .
>
>Comments? Suggestions? Let's hear 'em, i'd prefer not to have to junk the
>current rules, even if they need revision (yay metlay).

	Sounds like a reasonable explanation.  However, the problem isn't
how the drive works, but what it does.  Reactionless drive (by any means)
equals violation of conservation of energy.  There is no way around it - I
tried to find one, and was finally able to prove that it was impossible.
	I used to have a lot of trouble with traveller's rather cavalier
attitude towards physics, but I think an important distinction can be made.
Some of the physics violations are intentional, such as Jump drive,
reactionless
thrusters, etc.  These I am happy to accept as little black Physics
Nullifier (tm)
boxes attached to the relevant machinery, and are part of what makes the game
fun.  However, a lot of the problems seem to be unintentional, such as the fact
that you can get free energy out of a system consisting of TL15 fuel cells and
a fuel purification plant.  Those I want to fix - it will help make the
game more
consistent.
	Since some of the intentional violations will let you build perpetual
motion machines, etc, my favorite explanation for why they don't work is
a "nullifier interference field" generated by all those little black
boxes...:-)
	Have fun,

					W. Dow Rieder

 	When the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems
start to look like nails...

-------- End of TML Messages --------

